Fred VonAppen and Norm Chow... More in common than you think

[BigWave96744]

Some of you may not have been around during the 80's and 90's when the program hit its highs and lows.
Some may hear of Fred Von Appen, but not really know the history
Just like the similarities between Presidents Lincoln & Kennedy, here's my research on Von Appen & Chow
**************************************************************************************************************

After the 1986 season, UH Hires current DC Bob Wagner after Dick Tomey takes Job at Arizona
After the 2007 season, UH Hires current DC Greg McMakin after June Jones takes Job at SMU

After 1995 season, UH Fires Bob Wagner who won 54% career games, coached 2 Bowl Games & the first ever WAC Champion Team
After 2011 season, UH Fires Greg McMakin who won 54% career games at UH, coached 2 Bowl Games & the first ever Outright WAC Champion Team

1996 Hawaii fans excited about QB Tim Carey who transferred from Stanford
2012 Hawaii fans excited about QB Taylor Graham who transferred from Ohio St
2013 Hawaii fans excited about QB Sean Schroeder who transferred from Duke
2014 Hawaii fans excited about QB Max Wittek who transferred from USC

After 1995 season, Norm Chow is the leading contender for the job but Fred Von Appen is chosen
After 2011 season, Dirk Koetter is the leading contender for the job but Norm Chow is chosen

Fred Von Appen changes the offense from the Triple Option to the West Coast (Pro Style offense)
Norm Chow changes the offense from the Run-N-Shoot to the Pro Style offense

1996 in his first recruiting class, Fred Von Appen's top local recruit is Punahou RB Afatia Thompson
2012 in his first recruiting class, Norm Chow's top local recruit is Punahou RB Steven Lakalaka

Fred VonAppen coached OL Marcus Malepeai
Norm Chow coached DL Marcus Malepeai

1997 All American Candidate, Punter Chad Shrout
2013 Team MVP Punter, Scott Harding

1997 UH Football player Shannon Smith drowns
2013 UH Football player Willis Wilson drowns

Offensive Coordinator Carousel:
1996: Guy Benjamin
1997: Wally English, but left before fall camp
1998: Don Linsay

2012: Tommy Lee
2013: Aaron Price, but was released before fall camp
2014: none, play calling Jordan Wynn

1998 UH 0-12 overall, 0-8 in conference
2013 UH 1-11 overall, 0-8 in conference

1997 UH 3-9 overall, 1-7 in conference
2012 UH 3-9 overall, 1-7 n conference

1996 UH 2-10 overall, 1-7 in conference
2014 UH 2-5 Overall, 1-1 in conference (after 7 games)

In 1998, talks around UH is to drop to a lower division
In 2014, talks around UH is to drop to a lower division

After the 1998 season & 3 seasons Fred Von Appen is fired and a former UH QB returns as Head Coach
2014??????

How you figgah???

[letsgobows]

does this mean we are hiring a former player, say Dino Babers, to come save the day and rebuild the program?

[808Hawaii]

Many candidates out there: JJ, Miano, Babers, Rolo, Ulbrich

[cabanalane]

I never understand why Bob Wager was fired. The same with Mac. Yes, the teams had great success, and there was no patience on the down cycle. After the Holiday Bowl, Bows had it tough post M. Carter. After Jones and Colt B, nothing Mac did was good enough.

Bryant Moniz for example IMO wasn't a good QB. The system made him better. Think back, comparing to this year (or even Chow era) Moniz was pretty good. Wouldn't mind if he was still eligible.

[poidog]

I never understand why Bob Wager was fired. The same with Mac. Yes, the teams had great success, and there was no patience on the down cycle. After the Holiday Bowl, Bows had it tough post M. Carter. After Jones and Colt B, nothing Mac did was good enough.

Bryant Moniz for example IMO wasn't a good QB. The system made him better. Think back, comparing to this year (or even Chow era) Moniz was pretty good. Wouldn't mind if he was still eligible.

I was kinda young at the time, but people I knew around the team back then when Wagner got fired would talk about how bad the culture was on the team and how there was a great divide between the local kids and the mainland kids and how the vibe around the dorms and such was pretty hostile. I don't know how true that was or if it had any factor in Wagner's departure, though. I guess that's what happens when the internet is not yet a thing.

As for Mac, he got asked to resign because he was no longer fit to lead the team (or any team) because of his condition, whether it be because of age, painkillers, or whatever it was. I don't know why people are so unaccepting of this being the reason, even though it jives with 1) what we've seen out of him in public appearances, 2) what people behind the scenes were saying about him, 3) what David Graves said in the (in)famous Kevin A. Reilly interview, and 4) the fact that EVERYONE knew he was gonna get canned after the last game.

I guess because people think that since Joe Paterno coached almost until he was dead and because Lou Holtz is still on TV that all coaches age the same and that all coaches should be allowed to coach as long as they are physically able to stand (or sit up in the booth). the reality is that sometimes the decision to retire is made for you, and when you are making $1.2 Million dollars a year at a cash-strapped university you are too expensive to be just a figurehead, especially when you can't even represent the University effectively. All the kool-aid drinking fans (MYSELF INCLUDED) gave him a free pass for the gay slur he made at Media Day - maybe we shouldn't have?

[Palolo_2LA]

Eery coincidences and same results!

[J-Rod]

does this mean we are hiring a former player, say Dino Babers, to come save the day and rebuild the program?

...or...a coach who is making a significant amount of money at his current job ($1.7 million) accepts less money to coach Hawaii purely because he is a local boy and former UH player/coach with Hawaii at his heart. (Ken Niumatalolo)

[RedZone]

FVA was linebacker olineman in college.
Chow was olineman.

They both like to run the ball.

[UnBiasFan]

TL; DR

[My3Cats]

Great and informative post BigWave!

[thatmakakiloguy]

i hope nuimatanolo doesn't come back...i never want to see the triple option in aloha stadium again

[WA Warrior]

i hope nuimatanolo doesn't come back...i never want to see the triple option in aloha stadium again

I'm not much of a triple option fan either, but I am a fan of a winning coach.

If that's what it takes to get UH winning again, I can take that pill. Better than what the Rainbows are doing now... I want them to be WARRIORS again and WIN!!!

[SundayJam]

I was kinda young at the time, but people I knew around the team back then when Wagner got fired would talk about how bad the culture was on the team and how there was a great divide between the local kids and the mainland kids and how the vibe around the dorms and such was pretty hostile. I don't know how true that was or if it had any factor in Wagner's departure, though. I guess that's what happens when the internet is not yet a thing.

As for Mac, he got asked to resign because he was no longer fit to lead the team (or any team) because of his condition, whether it be because of age, painkillers, or whatever it was. I don't know why people are so unaccepting of this being the reason, even though it jives with 1) what we've seen out of him in public appearances, 2) what people behind the scenes were saying about him, 3) what David Graves said in the (in)famous Kevin A. Reilly interview, and 4) the fact that EVERYONE knew he was gonna get canned after the last game.

I guess because people think that since Joe Paterno coached almost until he was dead and because Lou Holtz is still on TV that all coaches age the same and that all coaches should be allowed to coach as long as they are physically able to stand (or sit up in the booth). the reality is that sometimes the decision to retire is made for you, and when you are making $1.2 Million dollars a year at a cash-strapped university you are too expensive to be just a figurehead, especially when you can't even represent the University effectively. All the kool-aid drinking fans (MYSELF INCLUDED) gave him a free pass for the gay slur he made at Media Day - maybe we shouldn't have?

I have a lot of issues with this analysis of McMackin. For one, you have an issue with older coaches. There are many older coaches that rock the NCAA. I really like Steve Spurrier to name one. For another, you seem to think excusing McMackin from a $1.2 million contract with one year left on his contract for a buy-out of $600k was a bargain. A buy-out of McMackin of $600k + $700k for Chow = $1.3 million. What a stupid waste of money for a cash strapped university. After which, Norm Chow fired a successful team of assistants and replaced them with losers. This is quite different from McMackin's desperate attempt to replenish a staff that June Jones depleted. After year one, McMackin had an enviable staff. I can't say the same for Chow after 3 years. Finally, your reference to McMackin's calling Notre Dame's mock dance of the Warriors' Haka a 'faggity dance' a gay slur is pathetic. I for one thought it was pretty dang funny. Oh...should I pay hundreds of thousands of dollars (as McMackin did) for agreeing with McMackin? I think the university over-reacted to McMackin's comment. Our university is stupid and we will likely pay the price for its faulty decisions soon.

[poidog]

I was kinda young at the time, but people I knew around the team back then when Wagner got fired would talk about how bad the culture was on the team and how there was a great divide between the local kids and the mainland kids and how the vibe around the dorms and such was pretty hostile. I don't know how true that was or if it had any factor in Wagner's departure, though. I guess that's what happens when the internet is not yet a thing.

As for Mac, he got asked to resign because he was no longer fit to lead the team (or any team) because of his condition, whether it be because of age, painkillers, or whatever it was. I don't know why people are so unaccepting of this being the reason, even though it jives with 1) what we've seen out of him in public appearances, 2) what people behind the scenes were saying about him, 3) what David Graves said in the (in)famous Kevin A. Reilly interview, and 4) the fact that EVERYONE knew he was gonna get canned after the last game.

I guess because people think that since Joe Paterno coached almost until he was dead and because Lou Holtz is still on TV that all coaches age the same and that all coaches should be allowed to coach as long as they are physically able to stand (or sit up in the booth). the reality is that sometimes the decision to retire is made for you, and when you are making $1.2 Million dollars a year at a cash-strapped university you are too expensive to be just a figurehead, especially when you can't even represent the University effectively. All the kool-aid drinking fans (MYSELF INCLUDED) gave him a free pass for the gay slur he made at Media Day - maybe we shouldn't have?

I have a lot of issues with this analysis of McMackin. For one, you have an issue with older coaches. There are many older coaches that rock the NCAA. I really like Steve Spurrier to name one. For another, you seem to think excusing McMackin from a $1.2 million contract with one year left on his contract for a buy-out of $600k was a bargain. A buy-out of McMackin of $600k + $700k for Chow = $1.3 million. What a stupid waste of money for a cash strapped university. After which, Norm Chow fired a successful team of assistants and replaced them with losers. This is quite different from McMackin's desperate attempt to replenish a staff that June Jones depleted. After year one, McMackin had an enviable staff. I can't say the same for Chow after 3 years. Finally, your reference to McMackin's calling Notre Dame's mock dance of the Warriors' Haka a 'faggity dance' a gay slur is pathetic. I for one thought it was pretty dang funny. Oh...should I pay hundreds of thousands of dollars (as McMackin did) for agreeing with McMackin? I think the university over-reacted to McMackin's comment. Our university is stupid and we will likely pay the price for its faulty decisions soon.

good grief, did you even read what i wrote? where does it say i have issues with "old coaches"? my point was that just because paterno could still coach a team at an advanced age doesn't mean that every older coach can do the same with the same level of mental competence - they all age differently and Mack just happened to feel the affects of age a bit earlier than some of his contemporaries. I bring this up because no one wants to acknowledge this as a valid reason for his forced retirement. everyone keeps saying "oh, i don't know why he was forced out? he won some games, didn't he? he was screwed over!" Should they have waited until it completely fell apart before making a move? If the AD isn't happy with his coach and there are signs that he can't do the job anymore, why should he wait for more proof of what he already feels before taking action? The truth is that if Mack's successor had more success, we probably aren't even having this conversation. but since Chow has proven to be incompetent for non-age related reasons, people keep beating the "Mack got screwed" drum and it's so, so tired already.

Also, the fact that you don't appreciate the magnitude of Mack's gross lack of judgement is what's pathetic. I can't even fathom your ignorance on this one. That's just something a head coach and representative of the University does not do. At the time we thought nothing of it, but was probably the first real sign that his ability to make decisions was severely compromised. I mean, it isn't like he said this in jest at a private party or to friends and acquaintances - HE SAID IT AT THE GODDAMN CONFERENCE MEDIA PREVIEW TO A GROUP OF REPORTERS! who does that??? I'll tell you who does that: someone who isn't fit to get $1.2 Million in state funds, that's who.

2010 was an amazing season, probably one of my top three favorite seasons up there with 2001 and 2006. But by the end of 2011 it was clear that 2010 was never going to happen again for Mack. Miano, Rolo, and Aranda did a great job of keeping the team together when it could have fell apart very easily. But, another season of just holding things together was not going to be good for anyone.

[SundayJam]

good grief, did you even read what i wrote? where does it say i have issues with "old coaches"? my point was that just because paterno could still coach a team at an advanced age doesn't mean that every older coach can do the same with the same level of mental competence - they all age differently and Mack just happened to feel the affects of age a bit earlier than some of his contemporaries. I bring this up because no one wants to acknowledge this as a valid reason for his forced retirement. everyone keeps saying "oh, i don't know why he was forced out? he won some games, didn't he? he was screwed over!" Should they have waited until it completely fell apart before making a move? If the AD isn't happy with his coach and there are signs that he can't do the job anymore, why should he wait for more proof of what he already feels before taking action? The truth is that if Mack's successor had more success, we probably aren't even having this conversation. but since Chow has proven to be incompetent for non-age related reasons, people keep beating the "Mack got screwed" drum and it's so, so tired already.

Also, the fact that you don't appreciate the magnitude of Mack's gross lack of judgement is what's pathetic. I can't even fathom your ignorance on this one. That's just something a head coach and representative of the University does not do. At the time we thought nothing of it, but was probably the first real sign that his ability to make decisions was severely compromised. I mean, it isn't like he said this in jest at a private party or to friends and acquaintances - HE SAID IT AT THE GODDAMN CONFERENCE MEDIA PREVIEW TO A GROUP OF REPORTERS! who does that??? I'll tell you who does that: someone who isn't fit to get $1.2 Million in state funds, that's who.

2010 was an amazing season, probably one of my top three favorite seasons up there with 2001 and 2006. But by the end of 2011 it was clear that 2010 was never going to happen again for Mack. Miano, Rolo, and Aranda did a great job of keeping the team together when it could have fell apart very easily. But, another season of just holding things together was not going to be good for anyone.

Yeah, I don't appreciate the magnitude of Mack's casual reference to Notre Dame's dance as a 'faggity dance'. For one, it wasn't a lack of judgement, but rather candor. It was a mistake that he instantly recognized and apologized for. That should've been the end of it.

The team of coaches and players Mac assembled for Hawaii was top notch. I can't say the same for any other coach for Hawaii. We had a golden opportunity to jell as the next Boise State and we lost it. The 2011 team was unlucky in hosting an arrogant quarterback and an injury depleted offensive line. Who could fault our offensive coordinator, Nick Rolovich or our defensive coordinator, Dave Aranda? Norm Chow did. Certainly the competitors that beat us in 2011 did not. They instantly stole our talented staff to captain blow-outs against us in 2012.